RHR: Managing Display screen Time for Children

Know-how has grown to play an more and more essential position in our day by day lives, so it’s completely important that we take into account the doable dangerous results of display time on each adults and kids. There’s a rising concern for youngsters whose creating brains and social expertise may be affected by [the] overuse of know-how, and but it’s turn into obvious that tech will stay ingrained in our lives for the foreseeable future. On this podcast, I cowl among the ways in which my household makes use of and restricts know-how in our day by day lives, some examples of how it may be dangerous and what we will do about it, in addition to some ideas for every household to undertake a plan for managing their display time in [a] means that works greatest for them. 

On this episode, we talk about:

• Why we’re speaking about this matter
• Hanging a steadiness between placing too many restrictions on our youngsters’ display time and never giving them sufficient restrictions 
• Selecting one of the best software program for your loved ones to handle your kids’s know-how use
• The significance of being conscious of the potential unfavourable impacts of know-how use
• Different know-how to present your kids in addition to the favored smartphone or pill
• Determining how a lot display time is the correct amount on your youngster
• When to have a sit-down dialogue together with your youngster to speak about accountable know-how use and display time steadiness

Present notes:

• OurPact app for managing tech time
• Display screen Time app for managing display time
• The Social Dilemma documentary 
• RHR: Reclaiming Your Self within the Fashionable World with Cal Newport
• Gabb Wi-fi telephones and watches 

RHR: Managing Display screen Time for Children

Intro

Chris Kresser: Hey, everyone, Chris Kresser right here. Welcome to a different episode of Revolution Well being Radio. This week, I’m going to do a solo present on a subject that we’ve obtained fairly just a few questions on over the previous six or seven months. I’ve spoken through the years and extra lately in regards to the dangerous impacts of extra display time for each youngsters and adults. And I’ve talked a good quantity in regards to the steps that we as adults can take to cut back display time. However just a few listeners have written in to ask for concepts on the way to restrict display use in youngsters, given how ubiquitous these applied sciences have turn into of their lives. And this has been much more true through the pandemic when many youngsters have been remoted and saved at residence and screens have been their major interfaces with their academics, pals, and lives typically.

I’m going to share some concepts and instruments that we’ve discovered to be useful in our household. And there are a few caveats right here. The primary is that that is undoubtedly a piece in progress. It’s been a wrestle for us. We discovered some issues which were efficient [and] some issues that haven’t been efficient. And I feel it’s price mentioning that we’re merchandise of the environment, and we’re formed by the environment, and we’re influenced and affected by the environment. And we will’t make remoted adjustments in that atmosphere and count on these adjustments to not be impacted by the circumstances or situations of that atmosphere. That’s a reasonably long-winded means of claiming that if we discover ourselves in a tradition the place these applied sciences are dominant and play an more and more vital position in social interactions between kids and leisure actions and the way in which that children study, and nearly all the things else, it’s going to be tough for us to handle that on a person degree. These are systemic issues, and, actually, there are steps that we will take individually and as households to mitigate the impression of these applied sciences. However on the finish of the day, we’re nonetheless topic to the affect of the atmosphere that we reside in. And I feel that’s one of the tough points of this for fogeys.

It’s one thing I talked with Cal Newport a bit bit on the present that I did with him on this broader matter of know-how in our lives. He additionally makes [the] level that, in his expertise, purely particular person steps which can be taken to cut back display time for adults, which is what he largely talks about, are sometimes not that efficient as a result of they ignore the significance of this context that we’re discussing right here. In order that’s the primary caveat. The second caveat in what I’m going to share with you is that we as a household are fairly restrictive in the case of these items. Quite a lot of what we do may appear draconian or unrealistic to you, relying in your specific state of affairs. If there’s a spectrum the place on one finish isn’t any boundaries in any respect, and simply giving youngsters 100% management over their very own use of know-how, after which on the opposite finish of the spectrum resides in a cave, in a distant space the place there’s completely no publicity to applied sciences for teenagers, I’d say we’re actually not within the cave. However we’re most likely nearer to that finish of the spectrum than we’re to the opposite finish of the spectrum the place there’s no limitation or boundaries in any respect.

And I’m not saying that our means is the one means, after all, and even the best means. Each household has to seek out what works for them, given their particular circumstances, and there shall be a number of variables that decide that. One is likely to be simply every specific youngster’s relationship with know-how and the way prone they’re to display habit or extra display use interfering with different actions. The reality is that’s not the identical for each child. I feel all youngsters are prone to some extent, similar to all adults are prone, due to our fundamental hardwired organic human programming. However inside that susceptibility, there’s undoubtedly a spread. There are children who’re very prone to this and, sadly, these youngsters can turn into those [who] cope with precise habit and will find yourself in rehab for online game habit or display habit of some type. And it will possibly actually destroy their lives and their household’s lives.

Hanging a Steadiness Between Too Many Restrictions and Not Sufficient

On the opposite finish of the spectrum, you’ve got youngsters [who] are mildly prone in the way in which that every one human beings are prone, however it doesn’t actually intervene with their lives. It doesn’t get in the way in which of their regular human relationships; it doesn’t get in the way in which of their bodily exercise, spending time outside, and all the opposite stuff that’s essential for teenagers to be doing. In order that’s one variable. One other variable shall be their social contacts and pals. One of many issues that’s hardest for us, and that I hear from so many various households, is limiting entry to those applied sciences, in lots of circumstances, limits their participation within the social actions that their pals are engaged in. For example, I had a dialogue a number of months again with a guardian of a 16-year-old woman, and her 16-year-old woman was devastated as a result of she felt like she had misplaced her greatest buddy as a result of her greatest buddy had joined Instagram and was interacting so much with different pals on Instagram. And this specific guardian of this 16-year-old didn’t need her daughter to be on Instagram and didn’t permit it. So she didn’t have a telephone that had Instagram on it. And, over a comparatively quick interval of just some weeks, this guardian felt, or the daughter principally felt like she was shut out from her relationship together with her greatest buddy as a result of her buddy needed her to be on Instagram, liking her posts, and interacting together with her like different pals have been.

So this can be a actual concern and [has] an actual impression on youngsters’ lives. And I feel we have to have a number of compassion and understanding for the place that they’re in. As a result of that’s a extremely tough circumstance to be in in case you really feel like your greatest buddy is utilizing these applied sciences and desirous to work together with them, and also you’re not in a position to as a 16-year-old, that’s actually tough. All human beings need to be included. That’s one other fundamental human trait. And as everyone knows, since we’ve all been youngsters ourselves, that impulse is particularly robust and essential through the teenage years. And I’d say much less in even tween years, as properly. So, being excluded from a context the place most of your mates are collaborating and interacting isn’t any small factor. And it’s undoubtedly one thing that we have to take into account as we take into consideration what one of the best response is as dad and mom.

That’s a framework for the way I give it some thought. And once more, that is for me, for us, for a lot of of our pals, and my sufferers and other people [who] I talked to about this; it’s a shifting goal. It’s one thing that must be reevaluated nearly continually. I [don’t] assume it ought to be the sort of factor the place you provide you with a coverage and simply implement it and overlook about it. It’s rather more dynamic than that, and the situations are sometimes altering. So I’m going to present you some concepts and suggestions and share among the applied sciences, sarcastically, that we use to restrict know-how entry. And the ultimate caveat shall be this can be a dwelling, respiration set of ideas and tips, and I’ll undoubtedly revisit it sooner or later as issues proceed to evolve for us.

The primary precept is pretty easy, however I’m stunned by how usually it appears to be ignored, which is for fogeys to be accountable for your youngsters’ entry to screens and know-how. I consider that unrestricted, limitless display entry, particularly when that display is linked to the web, and there aren’t any boundaries on what apps may be put in, is a recipe for catastrophe. I feel we’ve loads of analysis to assist this. We all know that that’s even true for adults. Many people wrestle to restrict our personal use of those applied sciences, and even these of us who perceive what the downsides are nonetheless wrestle. After which if you give youngsters and youngsters that sort of unrestricted entry, primary, they might first not have the identical concepts in regards to the harms that may come from these applied sciences. So they don’t seem to be essentially even beginning with the idea that they need to restrict them. And quantity two, they’ve the unimaginable social pull that I simply talked about to be utilizing them. And quantity three, their willpower and different useful resource[s], inside sources for limiting their entry, controlling their very own habits are sometimes far much less developed than these sorts of sources may be in adults.

For all these causes, I feel that giving youngsters unrestricted entry is a big mistake, and it’s actually setting them up and setting you up for failure and a number of issues down the road. So the primary precept is to be accountable for entry, and there are alternative ways to do that. One, after all, is to not give your youngsters their very own units within the first place, like telephones or tablets, and solely permit them to make use of yours at sure instances and for sure intervals that you just designate. Now, this has some downsides, after all, particularly as youngsters become old. It’s important to be very a lot concerned and in management, and there may be a number of energy struggles round that. You additionally might not need your youngsters [on] your units and probably opening [and] studying your emails or textual content messages or issues like that. So I feel that this specific technique can work for very younger youngsters. [However], I’d additionally argue that very younger youngsters shouldn’t actually have a lot display entry in any respect, significantly unsupervised display entry. However when youngsters become old, in lots of circumstances, it’s going to make extra sense for them to have their very own system, no matter that is likely to be. However to make use of, once more, right here’s the irony, know-how, significantly software program, to manage and restrict their entry to these units.

Software program to Management Machine Entry

Let me give a particular instance in our household. Our daughter is 10 [years old] on the time of this recording, 10 and a half; she doesn’t have her personal telephone but, though she would very very similar to to have one. And he or she possible received’t have her personal telephone till she’s 15 or 16. Once more, this places us within the absolute minority. Some would name us Neo-Luddites, however it’s a selection we’ve made primarily based on consideration of lots of the variables that I discussed earlier within the recording. She does have her personal iPad, and we use an app known as OurPact that permits us to set limits on the general period of time that she will be able to spend on the system. And in addition what apps can be utilized, whether or not she will be able to obtain new apps herself; she can not. Whether or not she will be able to do in-app purchases, she can not. And several other different variables. So it’s a fairly highly effective app. It’s not good; I’ve some quibbles with it. However I’ve checked out and used nearly all the same apps, and I preserve coming again to utilizing OurPact for this function. So you’ll be able to set it up. For instance, let’s say you need to give your youngsters a half-hour [or] an hour of display entry a day or two hours of display entry a day. You are able to do that. You can even have totally different limits on the weekends versus through the week. You can too block out sure hours. So let’s say you don’t need them accessing the iPad within the morning after they’re preparing for college, and possibly you need to set blackout hours at night time, so like after 8: 00 p.m., there’s no entry till the next day after faculty at 3: 00 p.m., or no matter you’re going to do.

It’s very simple to do this with OurPact. After which from there, you’ll be able to configure what apps they’ve entry to. And that may even be carried out for particular instances a day. So you could possibly determine, for instance, to have solely sure apps out there within the morning, or on the weekend, or after faculty or what have you ever. So, [it’s a] fairly particular set of controls. There [are] additionally now built-in controls in iOS and possibly Android. I’m not an Android consumer, so I don’t know a lot about it. However I assume at this level that they’ve the same perform. In iOS, that is known as Display screen Time. And you need to use this for your self to manage or restrict your personal display time; you can even use it on your youngsters. And we use each. It’s a bit sophisticated, [and] I’m not even certain I can clarify it right here. However there are options which can be out there in Display screen Time that aren’t out there in OurPact and vice versa. So we ended up cobbling collectively an answer the place we use each, and it really works fairly properly. It was a number of trial and error for us, and there are tons and plenty of variables, which is, once more, why I can’t actually clarify it intimately right here. However Display screen Time, for instance, permits us to restrict whole teams of apps. And I’ve discovered that in some circumstances, the time-limiting issue works a bit bit higher than it does with OurPact.

One essential factor to notice is that for both of those apps to work properly, the units have to be linked to the web as a result of that’s the way it calls again to the guardian system. So with OurPact, you’ll have it put in on the kid’s system, and then you definately’ll have an app in your system. And you may management all of the entry settings out of your system and from the kid’s system; that’s the way it calls again to the web, I feel, to implement the bounds. And if it’s not linked to the web, then there’s no restrict, and this can be a draw back of the app, and I’ve written [to] them about it. Nevertheless it appears to be a limitation in the way it’s programmed. And this could come up, like let’s say you’re on an extended drive, and also you solely need your child to have the ability to watch a film for a pair [of] hours, and then you definately need them to do one thing else for the rest of the drive. Except that iPad has a mobile connection that permits it to be linked whilst you’re driving, then that restrict is not going to [be enforced], principally. Your child will have the ability to proceed utilizing the iPad till you get again to someplace the place there’s an web connection. In order that’s one thing to concentrate on. [A] workaround is getting a mobile connection for that system, and I feel Display screen Time does a greater job of that. It looks like typically the restrict will nonetheless be enforced, even when there’s not an web connection. However to be trustworthy, I haven’t been in a position to totally determine that out but. It looks like typically it really works, and typically it doesn’t. However between each of those instruments, you’ll be able to have a number of fine-grained management over what your youngsters are accessing and for the way lengthy.

Consciousness of Machine Actions with Potential Adverse Influence

The second precept is to manage your youngsters’ entry to the web and sure apps. Not all on-line actions are equal in the case of their potential unfavourable impression on youngsters. Streaming music, for instance, or taking images or organizing images are far totally different when it comes to how they have an effect on youngsters than utilizing Instagram or TikTok. Quite a lot of the research we’ve seen and work from individuals like Jonathan Haidt and even Fb’s personal analysis has proven that there are uniquely dangerous results of social media like Instagram and TikTok that significantly impression tween and teenage ladies as a result of they plug into the robust want for belonging that I discussed earlier. And youngsters can begin to set up their lives round getting likes for what they put up, and in the event that they don’t get likes, it deeply impacts their vanity. And that’s a lot worse and so totally different than taking footage, listening to music, and even texting. In order that’s the very first thing to concentrate on. We’re not speaking about common restriction to all applied sciences in the identical means. It is smart to limit entry to these applied sciences, which current the best menace and may trigger the best hurt.

So once more, apps like OurPact that I simply talked about after which Display screen Time, which is constructed into iOS, can each present entry to and restrict entry to sure apps. And I feel it’s a extremely good thought to make use of these instruments for that reason. Alongside the identical traces, OurPact and Display screen Time may also block your youngster from buying and downloading new apps from the App Retailer, which you undoubtedly need to do. As a result of in any other case, your youngsters [are] simply going to work round this beautiful rapidly. Most children are savvy with know-how, and in the event that they’re in a position to get on there and obtain no matter apps they need and use these apps or do in-app purchases, then no matter efforts you’ve [made] to forestall that from occurring shall be moot.

Options to Common Smartphones

Another choice for controlling entry to the web and sure apps is to purchase one thing like a Gabb telephone or a Gabb watch. It is a firm that has created telephones and watches which can be particularly designed for teenagers. These units restrict the variety of contacts {that a} child may have. So, for instance, with the Gabb watch, they will solely have 10 contacts; they will’t add new contacts. So that’s safer. It prevents a number of stuff from occurring that you just won’t need to occur. There’s additionally a mode on the Gabb watch the place the one factor that the kid can do is to name an emergency quantity that you just designate, which might be your personal quantity [or] your companion’s quantity. And when it’s in that mode, it capabilities principally as a watch and it’s an emergency system. And you may set hours for utilization. So let’s say you don’t need your child utilizing the watch through the day whereas they’re at college. You can set it in order that they will solely have the total use of it from like 3: 00 p.m. to eight: 00 p.m. or one thing every single day. After which, the telephone has extra performance than the watch. It’s received music; it’s received extra contacts. They will ship textual content messages, [and] they will make calls. However they can’t set up Instagram and different social media apps on the telephone. It’s simply not doable to do this with the Gabb telephone. So this has turn into a fairly in style possibility for lots of fogeys.

And the watch can also be a preferred possibility for youthful youngsters. Whereas within the case the place you don’t essentially need your youngster having full entry to a telephone but, however you do need them to have the ability to make calls, which you are able to do with the Gabb watch to the ten contacts which can be preloaded that the dad and mom can load, and to have the ability to ship easy emoji-based textual content messages or pre-configured messages. So you’ve got a set of pre-configured messages which you can decide and write and cargo into the watch. So that they might be like “I’m on my means residence” or “are you able to come choose me up” or one thing like that. After which the child can simply select from these pre-configured messages. After which the child may also report a voice memo or voice message that shall be despatched to you as a textual content message, however it should present up as an audio recording. So I feel that’s a extremely nice starter possibility.

We’re once more, on the time of this recording, contemplating that for our 10-year-old. We’re not prepared for a telephone, even a Gabb telephone for her. However we’re contemplating a watch, and there’s a number of controls and I feel [it] supplies among the profit[s] of having the ability to take part in social interplay. A few of her pals have already got telephones. Actually, a number of them have watches or issues like that, and she or he desires to have the ability to name them or talk with them. And after I assume again by myself childhood and my spouse, we each speak about this. By the point we have been 10 or 11, we have been utilizing our landlines to name pals. And we have been in a position to talk with them in that means. Most individuals now don’t have landlines, and that’s actually not an possibility. So if we would like our youngsters to have the ability to name their pals and talk with them in that means, then one thing like a Gabb watch, which allows that however doesn’t permit lots of the extra dangerous points of know-how for youthful youngsters, like entry to social media, which may be a extremely good compromise for lots of various dad and mom and children.

How A lot Time Ought to You Permit Your Child to Have interaction with the Display screen?

The final precept or query is simply merely how a lot time do you have to permit your child to be engaged with the display? It is a very private selection. And, after all, it relies on all of the variables that we talked about earlier than. And in case you ask 10 consultants, psychologists, and individuals who examine this and write about it and speak about it so much, you’re going to get 10 totally different solutions. So there’s nothing common right here. And once more, I feel it relies upon so much on the children’ temperament. The analysis is fairly clear that younger youngsters below the age of two ought to not likely have any display time in any respect. So all this Child Mozart stuff, and typically after I exit to a restaurant, and I see a household with a one-year-old, propped up on a excessive chair with a telephone on their little tray in entrance of them, I cringe as a result of there’s a number of proof that implies that that’s not useful and is dangerous for the neurodevelopment, mind growth of children that age.

As youngsters begin to become old, the vary of potential display time that consultants recommend will get broader and broader once more, relying on who you hearken to. In our case, we actually need our daughter to be spending as a lot time interacting with the actual bodily world as doable, which suggests being exterior, staying lively, [and] enjoying with pals in individual. After which issues like studying books, making artwork, [and] enjoying music. We really feel that these sorts of actions are greatest for her mind growth, for her social growth, [and] for her growth as a human being. We wish her to have an expertise of life that’s primarily unmediated by know-how. We wish her to have time for reverie and contemplation. We wish her to really feel bored as a result of as I’ve simply talked about earlier than and written about earlier than, boredom is definitely a precondition for creativity and innovation. With the ability to tolerate these moments the place you don’t know what to do, you’re not engaged in a selected exercise, and also you begin to really feel that sensation that we discuss with as boredom, among the richest and most unpredictable experiences can come out of that.

And one of many issues that considerations me most about these applied sciences that we’ve entry to, for adults and children, is that if we need to, we will utterly keep away from that have. These experiences of boredom, these quiet moments the place we’d simply gaze out the window, and we go into that default mode community the place we’re unconsciously reviewing our lives and our experiences, and that’s producing new concepts and new views. I feel that sort of time is totally important to being human, and I’m involved that there are whole generations now which can be being raised with these applied sciences, which might basically utterly obliterate that point. So let’s say you’re in line on the retailer, and also you is likely to be in a state of affairs the place you’d have these sorts of moments, however you’ll be able to simply whip out your telephone and see what’s new. Equally, in case you’re driving in a automobile, like many people did once we have been youngsters simply searching the window, at this level, so many youngsters are simply watching a video or on their telephone within the automobile. Actually anytime there’s any feeling of discomfort or simply house at multi functional’s life, we will have a look at our telephone. And I feel that the harms of this usually are not even totally understood but and received’t be for a while. However I’m fairly alarmed by it. And I see it in each adults and children.

I used to be simply at a restaurant the opposite day, and there was a household, and your complete household was on their telephones for your complete time. And there have been moments the place somebody would put their telephone down after which form of go searching, see that different individuals have been on their telephones, and choose it up once more. There have been moments the place you could possibly see somebody going by means of [an] inside, or a minimum of I used to be projecting that they have been going by means of an inside course of the place they’re like, “Okay, I most likely shouldn’t be utilizing my telephone as a lot.” So that they put the telephone down. However then, a pair [of] moments go, some discomfort arises, [and] they choose up the telephone once more. And I don’t imply to guage or to name this specific household out as a result of all of us wrestle with this, together with me. Nevertheless it’s an indicator for me of the place we’re at on the earth that we’re dwelling in. And I feel that if we have been, let’s say, to move ourselves from 30 or 40 years in the past, previous to the arrival of those applied sciences, and journey into the long run, after which simply be a passive observer standing in that restaurant taking a look at what’s occurring, we’d have been horrified and shocked. It might have been like a nasty sci-fi film, the place we see that that’s the character of human interplay now, and even simply [our] relationship with ourselves is totally interfered with by these applied sciences.

And I really feel like we’ve been the proverbial frogs within the boiling water, the place these adjustments have taken place rapidly however not in a single day. I don’t assume we’re even totally conscious of how dramatically they’ve interfered with our lives. And in case you consider that thought experiment the place you go from 30 or 40 years in the past, these of us who have been sufficiently old to recollect what life was like earlier than these applied sciences, and also you quick ahead rapidly, it might be a stunning change. So we undoubtedly fall on the tip of the spectrum of limiting entry to those applied sciences and wanting our daughter to have vital intervals of time the place she’s not interacting with them in any respect. And that’s true on a day-to-day foundation. Nevertheless it’s additionally true on a extra prolonged timeframe. I’ve talked about this so much earlier than, however we do digital, full screen-free instances as a household. We’ve been worse on this within the pandemic, however previous to that, Sundays have been sacred screen-free days for everyone. After which we’d do extra prolonged intervals; in the summertime, we’ll usually do a multi-day rafting journey or a backcountry journey the place we’re simply in nature, and we’re not interacting with telephones or screens in any respect.

And I can let you know that even when our daughter was youthful than she is now, on the finish of these journeys, she would categorical that she didn’t need to go away these environments. So even at a younger age, [she] was in a position to expertise how totally different life feels if you’re in that sort of important important relationship to the bodily world, to nature, to different individuals. And he or she would say issues like, “Poppa, I don’t need to go away the river,” which is a fairly highly effective expression of our personal innate data of what’s good for us. And I feel it’s actually essential to carve out screen-free instances every day, extra prolonged intervals on a weekly or month-to-month foundation, after which, longer chunks of time possibly on an annual or semiannual foundation, the place your youngsters and you aren’t experiencing life mediated by a display as a result of it has turn into such a dominant expertise for many of us.

All proper, so these are my present ideas. I hope this has been useful. And once more, I need to emphasize how this can be a dwelling respiration course of. We’ve modified and proceed to alter our strategy. For instance, proper now, we’re not likely doing a lot display time in any respect every day for our daughter. Now we have a household film night time on Saturday nights, and she or he’s received possibly a half-hour, an hour on one or two different days through the week, relying on the week. However we’ve had different instances the place she had an hour a day, and will watch a film or do another stuff. However we’re simply continually monitoring it, seeing the way it’s working for her, for our household after which making adjustments accordingly. So I’d undoubtedly invite you to do the identical; it does require extra thought course of, extra dialogue. It turns into a bigger matter of dialog. However I feel it’s actually essential to do this.

When to Focus on Accountable Use of Tech with Your Children

The second factor about that that I’d recommend is together with your youngster, as soon as they’re sufficiently old, in these conversations. We’ve talked so much with our daughter in regards to the impacts of those applied sciences. She’s even watched The Social Dilemma; she was a bit younger for it when she noticed it, however we actually needed her to see it. I’ve talked to her about my work and research about know-how and display habit. She’s very properly conscious of all of that stuff. And that doesn’t imply that she nonetheless doesn’t need to use these applied sciences. After all, that’s not going to alter her needs. All that stuff is working on an mental degree; she understands it on an mental degree, however her needs and impulses for these applied sciences are coming from a decrease a part of the mind and a part of very deep human needs to work together with different individuals socially and be a part of one thing, and so forth. So don’t count on to elucidate this stuff to your youngsters after which have them abruptly change their habits. That doesn’t work for many adults, so we will’t count on it to work for teenagers.

However, I feel it is very important embrace them within the dialog. And I feel you’ll discover that if you do this, you’ll hear your youngsters in numerous contexts mentioning, possibly to different individuals and even to you, issues that you just’ve shared with them up to now, and that’s an indicator that they’re taking it in in some kind or capability. All proper. That’s it for at the moment, everybody. Thanks for listening. Please preserve sending in your inquiries to ChrisKresser.com/podcastquestion, and we’ll speak to you subsequent time.

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